tristangrayford.scot profile picture

Tristan Grayford @tristangrayford.scot

This is not caused primarily by "screen time".

It's been caused by the mass eradication of third places for young people in basically every city over the past three decades - and a society that's hostile to the concept of teens socialising in public spaces.

www.theguardian.com/politics/liv...

Culture secretary Lisa Nandy says ‘majority of young people spend all, or almost all, of their free time alone in their bedrooms, online’

‘Worrying’ levels of screen time means young people losing confidence to socialise in person, minister warns – UK politics live

Culture secretary Lisa Nandy says ‘majority of young people spend all, or almost all, of their free time alone in their bedrooms, online’

Replies

  1. terryleopard.bsky.social profile picture

    TerryLeopard @terryleopard.bsky.social

    I only wanted something else to do but hang around

    I only wanted something else to do but hang around (Hang around, hang around)

    It's on the front page of the papers

    This is their hour of need

    Where's a culture secretary when you need one To blame the colour TV?

    0
  4. faoileanngrinmhar.bsky.social profile picture

    @faoileanngrinmhar.bsky.social

    Agree with this! and also i believe part of the reason young people struggle a lot more with physical and mental health issues now.The irony is that these young people will be villified when they hit 18 and struggle to get employment

    1
  7. mashara.bsky.social profile picture

    Sara @mashara.bsky.social

    Them: mallrats are a taint on society and must be contained. Also them: youngsters do not socialise anymore smh

    1
  8. hamishboot.bsky.social profile picture

    Professor Boot @hamishboot.bsky.social

    If a statement is preceded by "Lisa Nandy says..." then you can confidently assume that it is not only bullshit, but politically motivated bullshit designed to excuse some right-wing shenanigans.

    [Reads story]

    ...yup.

    0
  9. julestherogue.bsky.social profile picture

    Jules_the_Rogue @julestherogue.bsky.social

    As a teen I hung out at the mall on Friday nights. I stopped after a year because the rules became so ridiculous that it wasn't worth going anymore. 20+ years on I saw a sign at that same mall that said "No customers under 18 after 6pm without an adult." The mall is a ghost town with 5 shops left.

    0
  10. drleatongray.bsky.social profile picture

    Sandy Leaton Gray @drleatongray.bsky.social

    Strong agree. Where you provide parks, clubs and swimming facilities that are dirt cheap or free and suitable for teenagers, the only time they get out their phones is to film great basketball shots, or a hilarious TikTok dance 30 of them are doing at once, for example.

    1
  11. johnboy20042006.bsky.social profile picture

    @johnboy20042006.bsky.social

    What % of the population knows in this regard what a third place is? About 2% perhaps at a push? Go on give us a clue…

    1
  12. sirilyan.com profile picture

    2000 SCC 69 enjoyer @sirilyan.com

    Any government official who does not provide an answer to the question "so, what should they do instead?" is unserious about this topic.

    0
  15. sharpenyersword.bsky.social profile picture

    SharpenYerSword @sharpenyersword.bsky.social

    The increase in screen time is also, in part, due to kids needing an escape from the world.

    This generation has endured more stress than most from a pandemic, resurgence of fascism, endless wars, rising poverty, lack of jobs suitable for teens. It's not hard to see why they prefer screens.

    0
  19. greatjackalope.bsky.social profile picture

    🤷 @greatjackalope.bsky.social

    You're both wrong (in looking for a single cause). It's the internet, more generally, which created a fearful culture where at least a decade ago kids had stopped spontaneously playing out. Youth centres were not the problem, it was a culture that kids hanging out are troublemakers or in danger.

    1
  21. catznjazz.bsky.social profile picture

    @catznjazz.bsky.social

    Well we used to see kids outside playing but now their parents are afraid of what? We didn't have "third places" we just went to our friends houses, hung out and/or played unorganized sports outside. Parents are afraid of that, but by shielding kids you get inability to adjust to society.

    1
  24. layer8problem.bsky.social profile picture

    Layer8 @layer8problem.bsky.social

    I remember when I was growing up the complaint was always that we teens were constantly loitering in public parks, shopping centres, movie theatres and fast food joints.

    Now they complain the teens don't do that enough.

    3
  30. davidkt.bsky.social profile picture

    DavidT @davidkt.bsky.social

    I'm struggling to think what "third places" I had available to me in the late '60's.

    Caveat: my memory is not what it was....

    0
  31. paulkirkley.bsky.social profile picture

    Paul Kirkley @paulkirkley.bsky.social

    Two different things can be true. Yes, kids are being driven out of open spaces. But let's not give the tech companies a free pass. Their algorithms are preying on young people like vampires. And hanging out down the park isn't going to reward their brains with the same constant dopamine hits.

    0
  33. stephannecalvert.bsky.social profile picture

    Stephanie Anne Calvert @stephannecalvert.bsky.social

    A driver of this (pun intended) is car-brain, as others have suggested. I knew a mother who wouldn't let her son use the nearby rec ground for football 'because paedos', not the busy 4-lane road he had to cross. Drive child 200m to school to stop them being run over by, other parents' cars

    0
  38. emilyhare.co.uk profile picture

    Emily Hare @emilyhare.co.uk

    As an adult (50 next year) who had a big problem with the addiction to social media, yes, it is lack of spaces outside of home but it is absolutely a HUGE problem with social media which is designed to be deeply addictive and is shown to be. It's both, but i'd argue SM is a massive part of it.

    0
  39. physicschris.bsky.social profile picture

    PhysicsChris @physicschris.bsky.social

    When I was a teenager we had an evening social club with activities and music. There are still some organisations like scouts, boys/girls brigade, etc, that do a good job but some like a more relaxed environment.

    0
  41. ieatpie.bsky.social profile picture

    Craig Grävling @ieatpie.bsky.social

    Purely anecdotally kids elsewhere in Europe do seem to spend more time outside and less on screens- there actually being stuff for them to do outside, walkable towns, etc.... Would be interested to see a proper study on this. Certainly a key point in why I plan to flee the UK before mine age

    0
  42. ledbass.bsky.social profile picture

    LedBass ☭ Palestina LIVRE! @ledbass.bsky.social

    Also, to exemplify the matter that the problem is not screens, but what is in the screens

    Instagram, TikTok and other social media are focusing on teens and how they look/live

    Social media should be ruled under strict acts and laws just like alcohol and cigarettes are!

    2
  43. sternlisa.bsky.social profile picture

    @sternlisa.bsky.social

    It starts much younger. We need to provide space in our communities to let kids grow up.

    Countering an 'Anxious Generation': more autonomy and fewer screens : Shots - Health News

    www.npr.org/sections/hea...

    Kids have too much screen time and not enough autonomy, says author Jonathan Haidt. His book The Anxious Generation argues this has caused an epidemic of mental illness and suggests ways to fix it.

    How to give kids autonomy? 'Anxious Generation' author says a license to roam helps

    Kids have too much screen time and not enough autonomy, says author Jonathan Haidt. His book The Anxious Generation argues this has caused an epidemic of mental illness and suggests ways to fix it.
    1
  44. rosamundi.bsky.social profile picture

    Rosamundi @rosamundi.bsky.social

    Police "secured by design" guidance saying park benches need to go in case they attract "antisocial behaviour"* *teenagers chatting.

    0
  48. iowarural.bsky.social profile picture

    IowaRural.bsky.social @iowarural.bsky.social

    Perhaps surveillance state parenting has gone beyond protecting kids at all times to restricting their growth and independence. The 80s feral kid parenting style had lots of problems, but kids could go hang out in places like arcades and rollerskating rinks without their parents and it was ok.

    1
  49. j-l0we.bsky.social profile picture

    Josh Lowe @j-l0we.bsky.social

    right, but this point is being made the government in the context of them announcing funding for youth clubs and activities so, I think they agree with you!

    0
  51. bajmihal.bsky.social profile picture

    Baj Mihal @bajmihal.bsky.social

    The children don’t have time to socialize, they have to get ready to work their prompt engineer jobs until they retire 6 months before they die at 85 years of age so we can keep the GDP growing. It’s capitalism.

    0
  52. maxanglia.bsky.social profile picture

    MaxAnglia @maxanglia.bsky.social

    My view is that it is totally down to the addiction created by American tech platforms that have refined the art of user interaction to a point where it is utterly addictive. Simply watch someone as they spend an hour on TikTok followed by an hour on instagram followed by an hour on X etc etc

    0
  53. rolo-lines.bsky.social profile picture

    Rolo @rolo-lines.bsky.social

    Add to that a car bias society that labels kids on bicycles a nuisance and their parents irresponsible for allowing it. The danger is fundamentalist habitual car use, not bicycles.

    0
  55. redvt.bsky.social profile picture

    Red @redvt.bsky.social

    even in malls, in most cases they are forced to spend money or sit on the floor.

    0
  56. mslesleysmith.bsky.social profile picture

    Ms Lesley Smith @mslesleysmith.bsky.social

    That is absolutely right. And street whatsapp groups that are hysterical at the sight of a group of teenagers "hanging out". Teenagers need to hang out people. We need more parks, more benches and to turn away quietly when they are drinking lager out of a can in plain sight...

    1
  57. xather.bsky.social profile picture

    Xather 💀💚 @xather.bsky.social

    And adults need to remember - this is a generation of kids who for roughly two years of their childhood were forced indoors due to COVID - those screens were the only things connecting them to their friends and the outside world.

    3
  59. janetsouthcoast.bsky.social profile picture

    Janet @janetsouthcoast.bsky.social

    Totally agree. Groups of yp, particularly boys, are viewed as antisocial before they do anything. Not sure youth clubs are the answer if tightly controlled and led by adults which most teens would not want.

    0
  63. tristangrayford.scot profile picture

    Tristan Grayford @tristangrayford.scot

    Of course teens spend most of their time in their rooms online when being offline is something that society reminds them consistently that they hate.

    When was the last time you saw the headline "new youth centre opens"?

    I think I've seen three "closes" this year.

    7
  64. tanweerdar.com profile picture

    Tanweer Dar @tanweerdar.com

    You make good points, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

    Screen time, and phone addiction, is definitely a problem. I work in a school (and I have two adolescent children) and I see it on a daily basis.

    1
  65. dorianlynskey.bsky.social profile picture

    Dorian Lynskey @dorianlynskey.bsky.social

    I do think screen time matters more than the closure of youth centres and I'm not sure people are any more or less keen on teenagers drinking in parks than they were

    2
  66. iammelissa.bsky.social profile picture

    Melissa @iammelissa.bsky.social

    Car bloat is a huge contributing factor. More ownership, bigger more deadly cars… it’s literally dangerous when a bin lorry kills an 11 yo cycling. These problems are all layered, it’s never just one thing

    0
  68. tiggertherese.bsky.social profile picture

    Thérèse @tiggertherese.bsky.social

    And lots of children/teens only being allowed to spend non-school time with others when their parents have booked a sport session, organised group activity, playdate etc. Many middle class children have no autonomy at all.

    0
  71. susannahwalker.bsky.social profile picture

    Susannah Walker @susannahwalker.bsky.social

    And socialising is teenage play, as Jane Jacobs knew:

    more loitering with others, sizing people up, flirting, talking, pushing, shoving and horseplay. Adolescents are always being criticized for this kind of loitering, but they can hardly grow up without it"

    0
  72. jmk79.bsky.social profile picture

    @jmk79.bsky.social

    Just back from holiday In a caravan park. My son is 7 and that's the first time he's been allowed to play out on his own with little supervision. The reason...no cars.

    0
  75. garethcolwell.org profile picture

    Gareth Colwell @garethcolwell.org

    The minister should be more concerned about the horrifying levels of hate speech from adults on social media platforms (especially Facebook and that other cesspit), which they don't seem to want to do anything about. Leave the kids alone.

    0
  76. docum3nt.bsky.social profile picture

    Peter Flynn @docum3nt.bsky.social

    As someone long out of the UK, I'm curious to know at what point and why the British Labour Party turned from well-intentioned socialists into rabid right-wing full-on spittle-flecked authoritarian fascists just like the Tories they replaced.

    0

  77. Paul Kerton @paulkerton.co.uk

    Similarly how there's no children/family content on linear TV anymore.

    Broadcasters argue they don't watch it on BBC One/ITV1 they go to iPlayer or YouTube.

    But that just isolates them, and anyway, What came first? The kids not watching, or the broadcasters taking the content away? 🤷🏻‍♂️

    0
  79. whyx3aawwwwee.bsky.social profile picture

    Lissa @whyx3aawwwwee.bsky.social

    I work in a public gallery and everyone I work with flips out if teenagers come in the building, even if they just want to sit around chatting with one drink between a group of 5. What are they supposed to do? Does nobody remember being young?

    1
  80. gemmaclark.bsky.social profile picture

    Gemma Clark 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸 @gemmaclark.bsky.social

    In education I’m definitely seeing screen addiction and it’s having a terrible impact but I agree it’s symptomatic of bigger issues. I’m always encouraging kids to read books and get outside but it’s a big ask when there’s nowhere for them to go and local authorities are just closing libraries

    5
  81. evilgav.com profile picture

    EvilGav @evilgav.com

    Don't forget, those same decades have been spent telling parents the world is a terrible and scary place and to not lose sight of your children. It hasn't lowered any of the relevant crimes, it's just forced teens to find different things to do, usually online.

    1

  82. Bill @billn.bsky.social

    Hostility was at a peak under new Labour in its "anti-social behaviour" phase. Teens were regularly moved on by the police. I recall my grandson and three friends being moved on from a park bench, apparently 4 teens in the park sitting on a bench was too threatening.

    0
  84. beth-u.bsky.social profile picture

    BethU @beth-u.bsky.social

    They have us talking to chat bots instead of customer advisors. Ask Siri? They limit our human contact and then mumble on about lack of social skills.

    0
  85. nadiawithaboringj.bsky.social profile picture

    @nadiawithaboringj.bsky.social

    I could barely move for Teens doing Teen stuff in groups of Teens today at an out of town Shopping Centre.. Honestly,this idea that all kids these days are shut ins stuck on phones 24/7 is just BS.

    0
  86. shades75.bsky.social profile picture

    @shades75.bsky.social

    This is true. Where I grew up there was a community centre, a youth club on Sundays at two schools, as well as 8 pubs within roughly a 3 mile radius. Now there’s 2 pubs and that’s it.

    0
  87. kaloyanp.bsky.social profile picture

    Kal @kaloyanp.bsky.social

    Third spaces are really lacking in London.

    I have noticed a lot of lawns around council blocks are fenced off and unusable.

    It's literally free space which could have a few benches around for people to hang out.

    1
  88. pedrothepigeon.bsky.social profile picture

    Pedro The Pigeon @pedrothepigeon.bsky.social

    Destruction of social spaces, especially for the youth + enforced payments in area common or public place. Netflix is cheaper than a pint - no kidding, 7 quid pints are the norm in London. Covis also happened! It had effects on how people spend time and also long cover correlates less socialising.

    1
  89. finl3y.bsky.social profile picture

    Finn @finl3y.bsky.social

    I debate this as someone who has a teen and early 20 year old. They grew up entirely differently to me and had a constant stream of on demand entertainment bombarding them. They went to dance/drama classes etc but both have very high levels of anxiety. I do think screens have a big role to play

    1
  90. stephaniemac.bsky.social profile picture

    Stephanie McKenzie @stephaniemac.bsky.social

    I remember there was a controversy about a train station that planned to install an ultrasonic device to deter teenagers hanging round it because of complaints from passengers. Teens can hear at higher frequencies than adults so they’d find it uncomfortable 🤬

    0
  91. jackdehearts.bsky.social profile picture

    JD @jackdehearts.bsky.social

    I was talking about this with my sister. Dumb kids like to set off fireworks in the park around their estate cause there's nothing to do.

    And to top it off the police won't go in to stop them cause they don't wanna get hurt. Fuckin clowns, the lot of them!

    0
  94. fredrieck.bsky.social profile picture

    @fredrieck.bsky.social

    l mean maybe, but lets not act like screens havent become more addictive than hard drugs. Its a real issue sorry to say folks

    0
  96. bigladydragon.art profile picture

    Charlotte Dragoness uwu soff dragon @bigladydragon.art

    I grew up on Long Island very car dependent suburbs, I had my license at 17 (was still possible in NY then) We used to go to the mall, there were 3 within driving distance, they’re all still there. We’d window shop, none of us were loud and destructive so nobody bothered us.

    0
  97. bookeh.bsky.social profile picture

    Marek @bookeh.bsky.social

    Every time I visit continental Europe, I’m amazed by the amount of spaces for people. Plazas, parks, pedestrianised streets. Places where people are a priority, not an afterthought. We lack those here as well; everything is either commercialised (i.e. pay for use) or built for cars. : /

    0
  98. 4u5t0.bsky.social profile picture

    Turmut Hoer @4u5t0.bsky.social

    "Worrying levels of teens endlessly playing Chuckie Egg on their Dragon 32 etc. etc." - my mum, mid 1980s.

    I did not socialise because I was as awkward as a bag of elbows. Forced socialisation did not help! I did once score over 400K on Chuckie Egg though.

    0
  99. francienh9.bsky.social profile picture

    Francien @francienh9.bsky.social

    An airborne pandemic that causes long term health issues does not help either. I would meet people in person if we would all wear masks, but other people do not want that.

    0
  100. wildpembs.bsky.social profile picture

    @wildpembs.bsky.social

    and school lunchtimes and breaks reduced to tiny fragments of time - no time to socialise, just queue for food, neck it down, piss and go back to work

    0
  103. angejay.bsky.social profile picture

    Ange J Williamson @angejay.bsky.social

    I recall the first time I encountered these signs after moving to the uk. It struck me with a sense of sadness to witness how this country seemed to be robbing children of the joy and freedom of playtime.

    No ball game sign in front of grassy, leafy hedge.
    0
  104. jaymarose.bsky.social profile picture

    Jay Marose @jaymarose.bsky.social

    Turning neighbors and families against one another is a helluva effective way to make sure people don’t leave the house.

    Feel in danger? That’s because pols keep telling us to be afraid of skin color, clothing & expressions of affection in public.

    0
  105. rhinogs47.bsky.social profile picture

    BlackShuck @rhinogs47.bsky.social

    Very good point. Teenage have always been seen as threat to society but seemingly more so than ever. They need space just to be. Socialising on the screen is possible. But it is where teens have been pushed too.

    0
  106. clairetherhino.bsky.social profile picture

    Claire @clairetherhino.bsky.social

    This used to make me so angry when I was a teen, still does as a cranky 41 year old.

    What are kids and teens supposed to do? If they stay inside they're "lazy", if they go outside they're "loitering" or "threatening".

    The problem is intolerant adults.

    0
  107. alizaadi.bsky.social profile picture

    Aliza Adi (she/her) @alizaadi.bsky.social

    I just can't get my head around why they don't see/refuse to acknowledge this

    There's no short/medium/long-term benefit, to those impacted, by ignoring how real world spaces have been merciless cut and underfunded by successive Tory and Labour administrations

    0
  108. johannahodonnell.bsky.social profile picture

    Johannah O'Donnell @johannahodonnell.bsky.social

    Here in the US, suburban teenagers spent time with their friends at the mall. Back in the 80s/early 90s, these were basically enclosed mini cities. The majority of large indoor malls have now closed. No idea where I'd hang out if I was a teenager now

    0
  109. highsorcerer.bsky.social profile picture

    HighSorcerer @highsorcerer.bsky.social

    Shit this isn't just a problem in the uk. I'm an -adult- and the only places to socialize around here are one of 17 bars in a 20 mile radius. There is nothing else social around.

    0
  110. ian.spennys.world profile picture

    Ian Spencer 🐧 @ian.spennys.world

    As a kid in the 60s, there was swathes of derelict land in towns and cities. The smell of damp plaster and rotting wood of an abandoned building to be explored is something that has been almost completely lost.

    And council playgrounds were enjoyably lethal, with concrete to cushion your fall.

    Picture of the big slide with unknown children. The slide has 3 sections, high sided at the top with a waiting cage at the top.
    0
  111. jmc123.bsky.social profile picture

    @jmc123.bsky.social

    POLITICIANS ARE PLANKS. My phone loving grandkids come to my house to bake using recipes on line while listening to music on line and they show their parents their messages etc! They use it to submit homework, pay for dinners and their school bus. Oh and the music teacher does some lessons on line!

    0
  113. mesoho.bsky.social profile picture

    Megan @mesoho.bsky.social

    You are right of course. Politicians are fucking idiots who refuse to listen to anyone but their own ambitions

    0
  116. theotheories.bsky.social profile picture

    @theotheories.bsky.social

    I think parents not letting kids outside much contributes a lot. They're not used to independence, parents are anxious, they end up not going out and not being allowed to go out. So they're at home on screens feeling lonely and like the world is unsafe

    1
  117. mansinhumanity.bsky.social profile picture

    @mansinhumanity.bsky.social

    Lisa Nandy lost me when I found out she supports zionism, which embraces indoctrination of hate in schools in Israel and they now want to introduce it into the UK. Not with my support.

    0
  118. rogerday.bsky.social profile picture

    Verlaine @rogerday.bsky.social

    The balkanisation of the school drive

    Not that sharing a bus was any great shakes, but at least it was a shared experience

    0
  119. benefiatem.bsky.social profile picture

    benefiatem @benefiatem.bsky.social

    Also: Many kids' social lives and thus social skills were disrupted during covid at formative ages and many of them seem to be struggling getting it back to any semblance of normal

    0
  120. paneraiwearer.bsky.social profile picture

    - Nicola - 🌸🎀💕 @paneraiwearer.bsky.social

    And under-investment (ie no interest) in giving them anything they might be interested in.

    Not every teen wants a skateboard park or a library/third space to hang around in. But they might have interests that are largely ignored.

    1
  123. kaniroco.bsky.social profile picture

    @kaniroco.bsky.social

    Yup.... I've been saying that for decades. There's places/programs for adults, seniors, young children, but nothing for teens (especially if those teens are from lower income families)

    0
  124. indiecornwall.bsky.social profile picture

    Cassandra Pronouns @indiecornwall.bsky.social

    It's so ironic that after all of the belly aching in the 1990s by people Nandy's age about their parents going on about TV and rock music they're doing the exact same thing about the internet.

    0