There is no possible justification for limiting e-bikes to 15mph but not cars.
New York Has a New E-Bike Speed Limit—and No Way to Enforce It
When the city announced a speed limit in June, haters rejoiced. But the plan had some holes.
15mph? that would make those e-bikes slower than some non-motorized bicyclists i know...
I think there should be a speed limit in bike lanes or spaces shared with pedestrians. On the road they should have the same limit as cars as it's safer for the rider.
Pay Door Dasher’s more and people will stop speeding.
what is the legal distinction between an e-bike and a motorcycle
Fwiw, when I was doored by a taxi, the EMTs asked me how fast I was going and I just guessed 15 mph
They told me 15 mph is the cutoff for taking you to the nearest emergency room asap, so just FYI
Slow down and maybe try a push bike when you don't have cargo/kids/etc
There is. The justification is this: "we want people to stop using e-bikes and go back to using personal cars so let's set the e-bike speed limit really low and worry about enforcement later"
Hope you feel better after the gym. You’re doing great work, I hope you know that.
I was a dedicated but schlubby bicycle commuter and even I could average 15 mph on flat ground easily. Give me a good hill and it's literally no effort to go 30 (or, all the effort is in braking safely). I don't understand this speed limit, unless it's some sop to old fashioned bike messengers.
Its because of the spike in head trauma because the ebike folks won’t wear helmets.
one: Protecting the idiot walkers that use the bike lane as idiot walking lanes.
How many e-bikes are there in Manhattan per day? How many cars are there in Manhattan per day? Are the number of cars less than 12x of e-bikes? What is the likelihood that an e-bike gets in an accident or kills someone (at fault). What is the likelihood that a car does?
Sure there is. Limiting car to 15MPH would inconvenience car driver while limiting e-bikes to 15MPH doesn't.
So New Yorkers don't take the lane?
Incredibly dangerous for pedestrians (and bike riders). Have you been to Manhattan?
As a London cycle courier I am concerned for the safety of a lot of ebike riders in particular, who do not know how to ride safely, do not use helmets or lights at night, and are riding faster than their reaction times can save them in the case of an inattentive driver. Maybe that's a justification.
Sure there is.
If you don't limit e-bikes, they will wreak havoc on bike-only lanes.
This seems a gratuitous act of trolling: around the entire country, e-bikes use shared bike/pedestrian lanes & sidewalks. Their weight and speed make them very dangerous to others. If e-bikes only used streets this wouldn’t be an issue, but that’s simply not reality.
easier to evade a car on a bike than in another car
I'm fine with this rule so long as we limit cars to around 1mph (equivalent risk of crash damage)
E-bikes are less safe for the people around them!
My uncle told me about someone who had once had one pass him going faster than he was, but I've only had a car drive over me in a crosswalk twice in fifteen years.
I would look up more statistics but I'm driving.
But bikes are so dangerous in the city! You might get hit by a…ah.
They’re quieter. People drive them more recklessly. As a pedestrian I’ve had more incidents/near misses with e bikes than with cars. Far less likely to be killed by an e-bike, but that is in part because it’s slower.
💯
cars have higher operating requirements, including insurance
I can see an argument for limits on bike paths and protected lanes.
but if e bikes are mixing with general traffic (and they are, quite a bit, because we don't have many bike paths or protected lanes) then they're safer if they can go the speed of traffic. Which sometimes is even 25!
The really funny part to me is that people who ride a lot on normal bikes can hit 20mph. So you're telling me that if you are using an electric bike you have to go slower then you can pedal on your own??
Slapping a motor on a bicycle without consideration for tire speed and load ratings is reckless at best
I clocked 2 kids riding on the same BMX style bicycle together. They were on the sidewalk doing over the street speed limit of 35 mph. This situation is insane.
I am a slow af biker and still sometimes go over 15 on a normal bike what even is this
A speed limit seems reasonable. Setting it at 15MPH seems quite silly, since human-powered bikes can easily exceed that even on flat roads.
Man the replies, we are so fucking fried.
Is it not for their own safety, like a helmet law?
A normal bike with normal legs being pedaled by a normal person can do more than 15mph pretty comfortably.
✅ Battery standards ❌ Motor power
Do e-bikes even have speedometers?
I mean it’s a lot easier to crash and get a concussion trying to take a corner at 20 mph on an ebike.
FWIW, I’m for putting governors on all of them. But I’m not sure we’re really into regulating safety anymore in this country. For operators or bystanders. People are all Cartmans.
I agree even from the standpoint of a motorist. What always happens is that there's only one traffic lane and I am behind a slow cyclist. Too much traffic to pass. Behind me is a growing queue of snarling drivers who expect me to creep up on the cyclist and muscle them off the road. ...
Easy thing is to just prohibit class III e-bikes on bike lanes. Then you lose motor assist at 20mph.
lots of nyc should be closed to non-commercial traffic entirely. flatbush avenue for example.
the headline is hilarious because we have (higher) speed limits for cars but such imadequate enforcement systems that it's normal for speed averages (when not congested) to be 5-10 mph over limit and people perceive it unfair to be ticketed for that!
One possible justification is the safety of the rider who may not be wearing a helmet. Car driver hitting a pothole at 30mph will be fine. Ebiker, maybe not so much?
Used to work in the city and hadn't been back in a decade, the only thing I notice with the e-bikes is they move so fast and can be coming from any direction that you have to keep your head on a swivel even more than you did before.
Also visited Amsterdam for the first time and similar vibe.
There is if you have a bicycle culture and they speed along bicycle paths!
Yes there is. It's called seat belts.
Um…. How about serious injury and death without the protection of a vehicle and seatbelt? 🤭
still no speed limit for human-powered bikes, right? because an e-bike going 15 is more dangerous than another bike doing 20?
Would be good if they followed traffic laws. Cars must too and if either don’t there should be fines.
E-bike riders almost always blow through red lights and regularly ride on sidewalks but sure, let them do it at 45mph
I think e-bikes shouldn't be limited but there's definitely a speed where hitting something becomes deadly on an e bike but plenty survivable in a car
Are they going to enforce speed limits on motorcycles because an e bike is just an electric motorcycle
This is anecdotal, but I didn't have a DL and rode a bike exclusively for like ten years. In my experience 90% of the time I almost hit a pedestrian it was they were behaving erratically and or weren't respecting the rules of the sidewalk. Keeping right still applies even if you're walking
Yet cars are not limited… except in theory.
If everyone had to get a motorcycle license along with driving training and you lose the license if you EVER go on to a sidewalk I would agree
Congoatulations. Now you know why so many Amtrak routes are limited to 79MPH MAX, even if the track condition is good.
They’re on the sidewalks. I’m not great at dodging
If they are on bike paths, they are dangerous and noisy.
I would personally be afraid to go that fast -- I still have some gnarly bruises after hitting a pothole on an ebike going about 12mph last month -- but this is not an argument for unlimited car speed
As a cyclist, I have to disagree. Cars aren’t generally diven on sidewalks and aren’t uninsured.
Less cars drive the wrong way down one way streets and on sidewalks. Not a ton less, but noticeably leas
Michael... Cars have frames around the passengers
So expand the lanes! The problem is bikes and pedestrians fighting over like 12% of street space when the vast majority is dedicated to cars
proposal: reduce roads to one single-direction car lane only
The stench of class prejudice on this, right down to the header image on the article: the problem is riders for delivery apps, and the pressure put on them to speed. Focus on the source of the problem: regulate the gig-work apps, not the vehicles they need to survive in their current conditions.
Republicans drive (or are chauffeured in) cars. Liberals ride e-bikes.
Now cops can arbitrarily stop people on e-bikes.
I’m guessing that’s the justification.
So your argument is cars kill more people than ebikes do so ebikes should have no regulations at all because all ebikes are responsible cyclists? For me as a driver, I can find it confusing to react to ebikes since they can behave differently than manual bikes
There is no good justification.
There are plenty of possible justifications, but none of them grapple with the full scope of the problem.
As a regular Citibike rider in NYC, they recently capped the speed limit at 15, which makes it harder to merge into traffic when the bike lane is inevitably blocked. Bikes and e-bikes are not a danger to anyone, cars are a danger to everyone.
The problem, which also exists in many German cities, is that there is disagreement about which space belongs to which road user. Structurally separated cycle paths with two lanes in each direction and a lane width of 1.3 m is the solution.
Of course there is. The unskilled idiots who ride them through pedestrian areas. This has always been a problem even for normal bikes in bike lanes. There are cyclists, and there are people on bicycles, novices who generally ignore signals and other rules of the road. e-bikes are a hazard.
Tell that to the normies that vote because that’s hugely popular like my wife said “this is a great idea”
the justification is to prevent the mobility transition
Weirdly I read something a while back that Amsterdam is having the opposite problem, they limited cars to (IIRC) 20kph and as always saw a massive reduction in accidents and the only complaint now is that scooters and e-bikes are unrestricted.
Is it just e-bikes and not all bikes? Because a lot of cyclists can go over 15mph on a non electric bike
As a bicycle commuter, I disagree very strongly.
Both need to be limited to 20 mph.
How the hell do I know if I am doing 15 miles an hour on an electric bike w no speedometer! And can someone tell the gestapo that the Mexican delivery guys are pretty much not delivering anymore. The whole city should be 15 miles an hour then.
Would love to see cars limited to 15 mph. But there is justification for doing it with e-bikes independently. E-bikes are often driven on sidewalks & trails where cars don’t go & pedestrians and others should be able to travel or simply be present without high speed vehicles of any kind present.
Apparently you don't live in an area with a lot of them.
William "The Refrigerator" Perry could run faster than 15 MPH. MLB players with a reputation for being "painfully" slow also (barely) top 15 MPH. I am truly baffled at how someone could come up with that number for an e-bike.
also a bike going at a high speed is not nearly as dangerous as a vehicle that weighs multiple tons going 80 mph
Reading these comments is so depressing.
Is this only e-bikes? So regular bikes are allowed to go faster? Where do they draw the line between an e-bike and a moped/motor cycle?
The complaints are about cyclists killing dogs and using sidewalks - I’m sure there are existing laws that can be leveraged for those problems?
Whilst I have no problem with car speed limits, generally cars stay on the roads. Bikes (and scooters) frequently weave between footpath and roads, which does present an increased danger to pedestrians. So I can understand their motivations.
IMHO the speed limit in cities should be 30km/h / 20 miles/h for everyone. #twentyIsPlenty
Countdown to this post being called ableist beginni… come on. At least let me count down.
Sounds just as useless as those little red flags pedestrians have to wave across the street!
I think if there were protected bike lanes everywhere it would make more sense, but not here where most riding has to be done on roads with cars. Mixing bikes going ~10mph and e-bikes going 20+ in narrow bike lanes isn't great but that is less frequent than car/bike mixing. Similar speeds matter.
We have similar rules for e-bikes in the Uk otherwise they would need to be classed as motorised vehicles which would require a drivers licence, registration and insurance. Although you are allowed to ride them faster as there’s no speed limit for bikes, the assistance has to cut off at 15.5mph.
My, there are some strong views here.
Just to add a data point: twice, while waiting for the 65 bus at 125th St. this year, I have had to leap out of the way of people riding e-bikes at high speed on the sidewalk. Not just crossing the sidewalk, along it.
Maybe a hot take, but I was a kid when they stopped letting bikes use the sidewalk and I never understood it. Apparently, it was the horrifying possibility of a bike interacting with a pedestrian. Oh, the calamity! Somebody get the jaws of life! Will they find survivors in the rubble?
I walk most days of the week on a bike-and-pedestrian trail (bike on it too a few times a month). E-bikes are FAST. As long as we share infrastructure and e-bikes are allowed on this type of trail (official speed limit is 15).
(Limiting cars, according to GPS, would be perfectly fine with me.)
Cars typically don't drive on the sidewalk (unless Eric Adams is behind the wheel)
As someone who routinely deals with and rages at things like delivery bikes that seem to believe bike lanes are meant to be driven against traffic...I'm still going to be a lot more wary about cars than e-bikes or scooters
Make them pay insurance and registration like car owners
Right there with you. I do wish that cyclists had to abide by some basic road and shared pathway safety rules, but that isn’t the issue at hand. I’m trying to imagine the use of 15mph limit on downhills, for example.
There might not be a functional reason, but a law that can’t be enforced in any preventative way may be rooted in insurance and liability. In an accident involving an e-bike, an insurance company can likely avoid paying damages to an injured rider or loss of their bike if they exceed 15 mph.
Certain people hate bikes so much. Just last week I had the right-of-way and a pickup truck sped up to presumably taunt or hurt me. Are bikes woke now? Did I miss the memo?
i can understand having lower speed limits for bikes because you don't have a car around you to take crash damage, but they really need to apply it to cars too anyways
If you want a bike that goes faster than 20mph then get a motorcycle. Just because stats show that cars are dangerous doesn’t mean that “bikes” going 15+mph where people are walking should be allowed.
ban cars from manhattan entirely, 15mph speed limit in the outer burroughs. why is anyone driving anyway it’s such a pain in the ass in new york
The people in your replies talking about the danger of ebikes to pedestrians and other cyclists while everyone is forced to share space with cars must come from another planet. It's the only explanation.
"There is no possible justification for limiting e-bikes to 15mph but not cars."
Actually, there is: traffic predictability. If everyone can predict where everyone else around is going to be in a few moments, no accidents happen. Bikes going a lot faster than usual are difficult to anticipate for.
People seem to think E bikes are ripping like 50mph. Meanwhile on my shitty mountain bike I was easily blowing past every e bike in my town, and arguably capable of being more reckless because I could do so
No speed cap? Then make sure the riders have insurance.
I think if someone decided to look really, really deeply they would likely find automobile corporations are behind all of the negative ebike propaganda as well as lawmakers making nonsensical laws like this one.
In germany its at a speed of 25kmh the motor is not allowed to help out so if you want to go faster you need you muscels. What i am fine with.
The argument is more for the safty of the bikers. Old people love to die thanks to ebike and yes infrastructure need to be a lot better and cars slow
Dutch trauma surgeons have raised concerns over the rising number of elderly people suffering severe injuries from electric bicycle accidents, AD reported on Tuesday. They strongly recommend that peop...
There should be more limits & enforcement for both. I’m a NYer who, as a pedestrian, was hit by someone speeding through a crosswalk on a e-scooter. I got a concussion & a wrist fracture, & am lucky it wasn’t worse. I also have to often drive (work deliveries), & know how reckless NY drivers can be.
there's no excuse for riding a bike at 15 mph in the middle of a city. we can support riders without enabling people hitting parked cars and flying head over heels to land on their faces on the asphalt. but the variable in question is human reaction time, which applies to cars too.
Well, if I hit my car into a wall at 50 MPH, I'm still gonna survive because of all the protective features, but if I run a ebike into a wall at 20 MPH that's probably really bad for my brain and neck.
Someone on a normal bike tried to tell me I wasn't allowed on a bike trail with my class 2 single-speed e-bike.
(1) I was!
(2) my bike has one gear and is speed-limited to 20mph!
(3) The biker zoomed off at 25 mph after telling me this
There is a justification. London and NY are comparable cities, with comparable number of ebikes. London has EU rules, with so 15.5 mph, a lot less deadly ebike incidents, especially when it comes to crashes without a car involved. Almost zero.
This is the sort of junk legislation that erodes respect for the law.
my experience with cops and alternative transport is they will also still be little bitches about you holding up traffic so this is just a catch 22
Cars are required to have seatbelts, airbags, and even people not wearing seatbelts benefit from the whole surrounding structure. There are totally different safety risks for the rider vs driver. To ride a two wheeler that goes over 35 or so mph requires a motorcycle license for a good reason.
I feel like this must have been similar to how people felt about cars. New mobility tech intruding on old urban form. We should respond by designing streets that safer for cycling and reducing car space to make e-bikes more predictable. That plus time will end this panic.
Yes, I have this reaction when I'm told e bikes can't go faster than 15.5 mph in the UK because some ppl are a danger, on them.
But the max speed limit is 70 mph, yet we allow cars and motor bikes that can double that speed on roads.
There was a serious engine e-bike v. pedestrian crash in Boston the other day and I predict that the city is going to start cracking down on e-bikes. Which is exactly what they do whenever there's a serious injury/death from cars 🙄
The podcast crossover we need (unless it’s already happened and I just missed it) @thewaroncars.bsky.social
Michael just dispatching all these replies like crazy 88s scene in kill bill
Seems like the line between e-bikes & what's essentially an electric motorcycle is kind of blurry in NYC. At what speed should a vehicle be allowed to travel in a bike lane?
www.peopleforbikes.org/news/nyc-emo...
Much of the recent critical reporting around e-mobility products, specifically e-bikes, centers on the Big Apple. New York City’s 8 million residents are seemingly on the front lines (or as many call ...
Add a water bottle to the back tire for noise and say, "My e-bike identifies as a motorcycle!"
Il an e-bike commuter and these are now less safe. They accelerate very slowly now and that makes it a lot harder to ride with vehicles that AREN’T speed-limited
Agreed. Especially when the average cyclist on a pedal only bike can do 18 mph on average.
This is what city council spends time on. 🤦♀️ Won’t give two seconds to thinking about speed bumps, red light runners blah blah but you can bet they spent hours discussing the disturbing aspects of cyclists and their speeds. Well then…build cycling infrastructure that works!
